“What is really radical is to be curious enough to listen and be compassionate.” A Talk with Dekmantel’s Elisa Luengo

In the past two weeks, we’ve seen many emotional posts on social media from the last-ever party at De School, where you worked as a booker and contributed immensely to the Amsterdam dance music scene. Were you present as well?

Yes, I went to the closing. It was personally quite a bittersweet moment because of everything that has happened around the club for the last 3 years, especially how everything went down in 2020 which ultimately resulted in more than 100 employees being fired. De School left us many lessons, but it’s up to each of us to extract our own learnings.

In your opinion, what does the closing of such an important hub for dance music mean for the local dance music scene?

De School’s case is quite particular due to the specific circumstances surrounding its history. While it might seem like a big loss for the scene on paper, the philosophy behind De School’s company has always been to start temporary projects. The club was born to last 6 years. However, the context is pretty different now, almost a decade after Trouw’s closing (De School’s predecessor). Finding suitable empty buildings in Amsterdam is nearly mission impossible. Clubs are struggling more than ever to make ends meet so there are more risks involved in starting a new project. But hey, there are also opportunities and gaps to be filled in the city so I’m curious to see what the future will bring.

You’ve been involved in the dance music industry for more than 8 years now, and in 2022 you took on the role of creative strategist at Dekmantel, one of the most acclaimed dance music institutions in the world. Last summer, you became the festival’s music programmer. What does it mean for you on a personal level to be part of such a gigantic and famed institution?

I feel super grateful for the opportunity to do what I love. I’ve been attending Dekmantel as a punter since 2016, even volunteering and working at the festival over the years. It’s a big responsibility to carry on the legacy that the previous team built. Dekmantel Festival is turning 10 this year so it’s a crazy full-circle moment to get the chance to program this anniversary edition. I’m not doing it solo but together with my colleague David Cornelissen on the bookings side and an amazing team supporting us.

Most people have no idea what it means to run a festival. I’m interested in your current organisational structure and daily activities. How many people are involved in the organisation full-time? Do you have different sections for programming, production, design, stage design, booking etc.?

Running an independent festival/club/agency these days involves some wizardry, but the magic is basically done by a crazy group effort. We have a small team that grows once the festivals come closer. Standards are high so we try to work with the best, most experienced and professional people around. The team is divided into production, communications, programming, artist handling and finance departments. We all multitask, sweat, cry and support each other to make it happen.

You have been in charge of reimagining how the festival of the future will feel, sound and look like at Dekmantel. What are the key changes that recently took place in terms of Dekmantel’s organisational structure, mission and future plans?

Dekmantel is always a work in progress since we’re trying to embrace change in order to move forward, which keeps us sharp. We’re going through a transition period while we reimagine where the festival is heading for the next few years. The environment has changed tremendously over the last decade but our musical vision stays consistent. We’re trying to connect the dots between the past, present and future of electronic music while developing a platform to elevate artists. Music curation is at the core but that’s not the only goal. Production-wise, we try to deliver an experience for the audience that takes care of the details. The future holds quite exciting plans! We’ve already unfolded some of them, such as Dekmantel Festival turning 10 and an Australian edition, but we still keep some tricks up our sleeve.

You’re celebrating 10 years this summer, and there’s gonna be a lot going on between 26 July and 4 August. How’s the 2024 edition coming together and what can we expect?

When this interview goes live the full line up will be already announced. The idea was to celebrate the 10 year anniversary through ten days of programming. We’re extending into the weekend prior with a dream location, Het HEM, an old ammunition factory now used as a cultural space. The architecture of this venue is so special that just stepping into the building makes me already excited. We didn’t want just ten days of raving so we’re also inviting Kali Malone for an organ concert at Oude Kerk (Amsterdam’s oldest building!) and organizing a get together in the form of a football tournament. From Wednesday on, it’s the same format as previous editions with Aan Het IJ’s opening concerts and Amsterdamse Bos three-day festivities.

Even though the European festival circuit recuperated its pace in 2023 after the Covid shock, festival organisers still face many issues. Some of the most notable are declining ticket sales, rising costs of production, overproduction, overbooked artists, etc. Has Dekmantel also been facing the same issues?

The post-covid reality has become increasingly harsh for every independent player. We’re no exception. Raising production costs, artists fees, inflation, market saturation… the margins are tight. Sometimes people perceive Dekmantel as this untouchable institution but our reality is more vulnerable than it seems because there are no investors, public funding or huge sponsorships backing us up. Remember that most of your favourite festivals have been sold to corporate giants and many others are in big debt fighting for survival. The rest are dependent on public money. It’s a complex equation balancing artistic value with commercial needs but we’re in a lucky position as the festivals are still selling out. We have a healthy foundation to build from but we don’t take anything for granted.

Globally, we’ve all witnessed new generational trends in the post-Covid dance music scene. I tend to associate Dekmantel with millennials and artists that represent my generation, say people around the ages of 25 to 45. Have you had any problems in terms of attracting the Gen Z? How do you approach generational changes in music tastes when it comes to programming?

This is a really interesting question. We were really curious to see how the post-Covid developments would impact the festival in terms of attendance and music trends. The TikTok techno dance is not going away but hopefully the tiny ravey sunglasses will come and go. Anyway, we can leave fashion for another conversation. Are these tendencies here to stay? It’s hard to say. Every trend is circular but we’ve never experienced such a mediated world before. The effects of social media seem structural so only time (and Shawn Reynaldo) will tell.

While we try to program the most comprehensive spectrum of electronic music genres, we observed how many DJs turned towards a faster, harder and poppier sound. I’d say that Dekmantel is a bit less purist than it used to be so it’s funny to watch that classic intergenerational clash of millennials against Gen Z, and vice versa. For next year, we aimed to lower the BPMs and hope to bring deep house back to the table (yes, DJ Sprinkles it’s my absolute favorite artist). But we also don’t want to become a festival for boomers. It’s important to keep the new generations engaged so we try to offer something for everyone while maintaining the quality standards as highest as possible. I’m just secretly hoping that a 20-year-old comes for Oklou and stays for Steffi. It’s not a secret that we’re suckers for the classics though. Dekmantel has always been known for putting foundational genres at the center and shining a light on legacy acts, that’s part of our DNA.

This year we’re looking back on 10 years of history with some intergenerational b2bs (Darwin & DJ Storm, Fafi Abdel Nour & Sandrien, RP Boo & SHERELLE…) while paying tribute to some of our biggest heroes (Jeff Mills, Midori Takada, Ron Trent, Marcos Valle…), giving space to the local Dutch scene to take the stage (Carista, Sterac, upsammy, Rozaly, Animistic Beliefs…), figuring out who the next generation of talent will be (Otis, ojoo, Loek Frey, RHR, Polygonia…) and digging for the hidden gems (Acid Junkies, 69db, a.s.o., James K …). Those are the main ingredients for the line up and I hope newer and older generations leave their differences behind and come together to enjoy themselves on the dancefloor.

In Central and Eastern European scenes, another hot topic has been representation, especially in regards to UK-based music press but also the Western music scenes in general. It often seems the cultural exchange goes only one way, from West to East, and rarely vice versa. In 2024, Dekmantel is organising a club tour through Prague, Vilnius, Tbilisi and Warsaw, and there are many locals on the lineups. 

The club tour is a project in which we’ve tried to put extra attention this year. I think it’s an essential way to build bridges with other scenes and get to know what’s happening in other countries. The idea is not to do a “takeover” but to collaborate. We’re the guests in these venues so we let them take the lead. Curation-wise, we try to strike a balance between local artists and Dekmantel-affiliated ones, respecting the needs and wishes of each space. We share ideas and the lineups form quite organically. The plan is to make some editorial pieces around it so we can shine a light on these clubs and local scenes.

It’s always been more of a struggle for non-Western artists to breakthrough in European scenes. If you’re not based in one of these electronic music hubs, it’s going to take an extra effort. That happens in any cultural market, unfortunately, and that’s why nurturing local scenes is so important, so they can stand on their own feet. Western promoters also need to travel beyond Berlin, do their research and build these connections. But let’s be real, taking those risks is also a privilege in the current financial climate. All these matters are always nuanced and layered so it’s good to look at them from every angle.

The two-way exchange is a responsibility we take very seriously but we’re still trying to master. We’ve learned along the way. It’s a complex puzzle since there are many local scenes around the world that deserve a spot and it’s difficult to zoom into all of them. Representation is one of the main ingredients of making a line up but it’s not the only factor we need to balance. While we try to represent the widest spectrum in electronic music, the goal is to think from a musical perspective and not in terms of nationalities. It feels right when it happens organically. Otherwise, it can turn into another form of tokenism.

Having said that, building these bridges in an authentic way is the most precious part of the job. For example, last year I got the chance to travel to Brazil for the first time. Immersing myself in such musical legacy was one of the most enriching experiences I’ve ever had. Some of the Brazilian artists playing at our event in São Paulo are also getting a slot this year at Dekmantel Festival in Amsterdam. In fact, I wouldn’t be here myself if it wasn’t for a Dekmantel showcase that happened in Madrid back in 2016 where I hosted Dekmantel Soundsystem. It’s a full circle moment that makes me dream about meeting Dekmantel’s next programmer in one of these future club tour stops.

There’s currently a lot going on in Germany and the German cultural and music scene. Depending on their background, many ravers/clubbers who support and respect clubs, festivals and other institutions tend to expect official statements on current matters in the current political climate. What’s your personal stance when it comes to calls for the politicisation of such institutions?

First of all, it’s important to acknowledge people’s suffering beyond politics. We should all agree on this basic fact at least from a humanitarian perspective. To normalize or justify the degree of violence we’re witnessing is a scary sign of our times. The music scene is a reflection of the wider society with its own social dynamics accelerated by the perceptions from within our bubble. The result is the extreme polarization we’re experiencing these days. It’s a moment of fracture with no space to have in-depth conversations about difficult topics because nope, social media is not the right place for a healthy public discourse. There’s so much tension in the air. How do we deal with this?

I honestly don’t have the perfect answer. I just know that there’s nothing countercultural about being hostile, confrontational and angry. These days, what is really radical is to be curious enough to listen and be compassionate. To be honest, lately it often feels like everything is crumbling down but I find solace in those real life moments of connection with others. Music facilitates those occasions. That’s why I still work in this otherwise decaying industry. Maybe it’s not a popular opinion but there’s a lot being said and done in the name of the community, but my feeling is that in many instances this is coming from a place of tribalism (us against the others), peer validation and performative activism instead of honest solidarity. Those who are understanding don’t portray themselves as morally superior.

Let’s not forget that institutions are made of normal people. Diversity is not only a matter of identity, it’s also present in the different ways those people think. Institutions are therefore not monolithic entities with a single view on things. Their realities are always layered and complex. Handling these issues is becoming increasingly difficult to navigate since there’s little room for nuance or error anymore. Moreover, freedom of thought and expression is often at stake due to an incredible amount of peer pressure. Taking in feedback is part of the job but trying to make sense of labyrinthic societal matters under public scrutiny is not an easy task. Many of us are just employees, trying to keep a healthy separation between our personal and professional lives while dealing with expectations of others who think we should also be experts in global politics. I’m not sure what the way forward is but I believe there’s a way to engage with social and political issues that is more emphatic, authentic and less focused on social media. Otherwise, we’re just burning bridges instead of building them.

Dekmantel visits Ankali & Planeta Za on January 26.